Key changes (modulations) within song - number notation

[cerveau]

We jazz players have 2-5-1's all over the place.
It's often easier to think of a 2-5-1 (or similar changes) as being in a temporary new key.

Case in point: Blue Bossa:
Measures 5 through 8 are a standard 2-5-1 in the key of C minor.
Measures 9 through 12 are shown in number font as b3-6-b2.
It's much easier, however, to think of measures 9 through 12 as a 2-5-1 in the temporary new key of Db major.

There are countless other songs with temporary key changes.
Can iRealPro incorporate this?

[Bobsax]

I don't know?? Could be a big can-0-worms As a jazzer gone bluegrass I think you should just go with the b3 -6 b2 . The Nashville guys have been doing it for quite awhile. Relate it all to the original key then transposing is a breeze.

[dflat]

It's much easier, however, to think of measures 9 through 12 as a 2-5-1 in the temporary new key of Db major.
There are countless other songs with temporary key changes.
Can iRealPro incorporate this?

It does not currently. I understand what you mean as this can happen in a section (like bridge, chorus) where it is in another key and indicated as you are suggesting. There are no plans to add this. I presume you are using the player, because if it was just a chart you were wanting, you could add text to indicate the key as you normally would on paper but create the chords as if based in the one key so the numbers translate correctly.

[cerveau]

I don't know?? Could be a big can-0-worms As a jazzer gone bluegrass I think you should just go with the b3 -6 b2 . The Nashville guys have been doing it for quite awhile. Relate it all to the original key then transposing is a breeze.

Really?... Well thanks for educating me here... I would have thought the Nashvillers would just say something like: "do a 2-5 to the 4", or "do a 2-5 to b3", because that transposes just as easy, and is still easier (in my mind at least) to understand the underlying pattern.
I know of many jazzer guitarists who like me use the system I'm referring to, but hey, if Nashvillers do it like you say, then hey... you bluegrasser and Nashviller guys are pretty awesome musicians so I'll take that under advisement.

[cerveau]

It does not currently. I understand what you mean as this can happen in a section (like bridge, chorus) where it is in another key and indicated as you are suggesting. There are no plans to add this. I presume you are using the player, because if it was just a chart you were wanting, you could add text to indicate the key as you normally would on paper but create the chords as if based in the one key so the numbers translate correctly.

Great idea, dflat!
Why didn't I think of that?... ;-)
Thx!

[cerveau]

Btw, that would make for a nice blog article.

[dflat]

For anyone else interested:
Sometimes a minor song is written in numbers set in its relative major, so in this example, it would start with 6-
and if you want to be 'true' to the generic nature of NN, you might then add some text like 'mod down b7 (b7 = 1)' for that section
(Eb to Db)

(If you start off as 1- you could make it clear that the mod up a half step (or b2) is in a major key just for aural reference, but I suppose it does not really matter)
(Cm to Db maj)

Also if I was doing a chart only I would write some text somewhere otherwise someone might Play it and it would be completely wrong

[DaveBuergerOnBass]

Curious if there's anything new happening to support multiple key changes within a song.

For example, I want to chart the Beach Boys' "Good Vibrations." The song has five key changes from one section to another. Another song, "Two O'Clock Jump" has one key change in the middle of the song. Is this possible in 2024? Thank you.

[pdxdjazz]

Curious if there's anything new happening to support multiple key changes within a song.

For example, I want to chart the Beach Boys' "Good Vibrations." The song has five key changes from one section to another. Another song, "Two O'Clock Jump" has one key change in the middle of the song. Is this possible in 2024? Thank you.

Short answer: nothing new

If the song easily fits on one page, just write the chart “as played”.

If a more lengthy chart than will fit on one page is required for performance use, write the song out “as played” top to bottom across multiple pages.
Song title p.1, song title p.2 etc…. Then you can easily swipe to the next page through the song. Select the most convenient spots to make the page breaks.
If you choose to make the page break at a key change, it’s helpful to specify the new key over the last bar before the break using text “new key” and using the small alternate chord entry field, the new key. I use the alt-chords so they’ll transpose with the chart (when and if).
)BOB

[DaveBuergerOnBass]

Short answer: nothing new

If the song easily fits on one page, just write the chart “as played”.

If a more lengthy chart than will fit on one page is required for performance use, write the song out “as played” top to bottom across multiple pages.
Song title p.1, song title p.2 etc…. Then you can easily swipe to the next page through the song. Select the most convenient spots to make the page breaks.
If you choose to make the page break at a key change, it’s helpful to specify the new key over the last bar using text “new key” and using the small alternate chord entry field, the new key. I use the alt-chords so they’ll transpose with the chart (when and if).
)BOB

That's what I thought -- thanks for the response. The two-change song will be straightforward. As for Brian Wilson's five-change song, I'll have to consume a mind-changing substance and settle for the complex approach -- if the band chooses to play this one. Really makes you appreciate his genius diving under the hood. I never suspected that much was going on with the song ... probably as a bass player, I was trying to keep up with Carol Kaye's bassline virtuosity! : )