END function discussion

[Kalokagathon]

I modified the Mr. PC chart to have an ending, but for the love of Pete I cannot understand why the Coda repeats by itself meas. 1-3 (of Coda) instead of playing directly to the last Cm7. What is wrong and I can't understand?


Mr- P-C-

[dflat]

... I cannot understand why the Coda repeats by itself meas. 1-3 (of Coda) instead of playing directly to the last Cm7. What is wrong and I can't understand?

delete END (it is invisible in song view - you will see it when you enter edit mode.) It is not needed.

More info here:
http://www.irealb.com/support/manuals/ios-manual/
see Player

[Kalokagathon]

I know it's not needed, but lately I have been making or modifying charts so they DON'T play the extra measure, and studying several charts I noticed the END on the last wanted measure. In a coda like on Mr. P.C., a good ending is on the last bar, not an added Cm bar after the structure. I *could* leave the last bar empty, but that wouldn't look right.

This is an example of what I want: even if I run this several choruses, I will always get the ending on first beat of second-to-last measure.

Autumn Leaves

P.S.: regardless, END shouldn't create a repeat... :-)

[Kalokagathon]

Hi. Here's another example of strange behavior when END is inserted at the end in order to have the player stop at the last measure instead of adding one.
Here, with END the Final chorus reaches the last bar even though there's a Coda sign, and then the Coda repeats from the bar with END command.


Blue Bossa

[Kalokagathon]

I still have problems with the END tag. Both the mentioned songs (mr. Pc and Blue bossa) are still (latest iRb version) not playable correctly, ie how it looks.
Plus, in this exercise, the Final chorus ends without the repeat of C section. The song stops at the END without even going into the 1st repeat.

Running minors

[dflat]

I still have problems with the END tag...

Hello, the END character was programmed mainly for turnarounds where Coda is not used (see reference below.) If you use it in a Coda section you will get strange results as you have seen. We are aware of different beats where you would want the last chord to sound, but at the moment we have not implemented a more sophisticated way of programming this.

In general, to use DC, DS, Coda, End etc. there are specific rules governing how they function (see ref.) Outside of this, there is odd behavior by the player.

Thanks for your observations, we need this kind of background to know how you want to program the player when we come to implement additional features.


Reference:
http://www.irealb.com/support/manuals/ios-manual/
Player

[Kalokagathon]

We are aware of different beats where you would want the last chord to sound

Thanks for your observations, we need this kind of background to know how you want to program the player when we come to implement additional features.


Reference:
http://www.irealb.com/support/manuals/ios-manual/
Player

I have read the instructions repeatedly, and from those one can infer usual musical reading behavior. That's why it's sort of startling when those weird repeats happen!
An implementation of correct - human - execution of musical indications in the chart would be nice for version 5 (see also thread at http://irealb.com/forums/showthread....-repeat-twice)

EDIT: it's not that I want the player to stop on certain beats (I believe that goes beyond the scope of the app), but I would like the END-tag to stop the player on the measure it's in.

[Kalokagathon]

Hello.
Here is another example of bad Coda behavior with the END tag.
I need the tag because otherwise the song will end on G7 so I need an extra measure of Dm at the end, but If I don't put the tag it will play 2 measures.


Wave DB
Jobim

[Kalokagathon]

I probably made a bad move by posting this problem in two posts - your reply is in the "wrong" one.
This reply is to dflat's reply in the other (wrong) thread (see above). The problem is that the thread title should read "END-tag behavior"... My bad.
---------------::-----------::------------::------------

We did not program END to be used within a CODA.

I know that, and I hope to convince you guys to re-program it for version 5... ;-)

The Player will (should) end with the final chord of D- if the song is set in D- and the final chord is not the tonic chord

Actually, as per your indications in the help pages, Dm will come if after the tonic or after the dominant, not just a non-tonic. This renders the next phrase false:

so there is no need to put in your last D- bar. Once it gets to the final G7, it should end with a final D- chord. (Make sure you delete the END tag.)

When I remove END, what I get as last unwritten chord (after the last G7) is a G7, which is expected behavior, but unwanted.

Deleting the END character will also give correct behavior to the first CODA sign.

Yes, correct behavior as per instructions, but not as musical necessity or intuitive results.

I am trying to bring up the issue of awkward behavior when:
1) song chords don't end on a tonic or dominant, but you want the tonic at the end (and it will never come, things standing as they are); consider also my playable version of "Blue Bossa".
2) typically there is a vamp at the end, so it's tagged as CODA (as in this case), AND one wants the ending on a specific chord - right now this is not possible.
Even if I wanted to end on the dominant, I couldn't do it...

BTW
the END character is used mainly for turnarounds at the end of a song (see Just Friends for instance) where you want the song to end before the turnaround.

... and I humbly ask: why? Why does the END tag not just end the song where it's inserted, instead of messing with the CODA indications?
From a programming point of view, I believe it should simply do something like:
"when it's final chorus, stop player. If in a repeat, stop player on last repeat."

I hope my tone is not coming across as cross ; I'm just pointing out what I believe are shortcomings of the app, and - perhaps naively - solvable ones. I don't know how to program, so I can't help you; it's just that I find no logic in the status quo, and I care about the app, love it, and would like to see it work for musicians who need a playable version (not for giggers who just need charts).

[dflat]

I know that, and I hope to convince you guys to re-program it for version 5... ;-)
... Yes, correct behavior as per instructions, but not as musical necessity or intuitive results.
... I am trying to bring up the issue of awkward behavior when ...

... and I humbly ask: why? Why does the END tag not just end the song where it's inserted, instead of messing with the CODA indications?... I'm just pointing out what I believe are shortcomings of the app,....

Hello, yes we are aware of the problem with End and Coda. We hope to give it some consideration in the future to tidy it up and make sure it works better for everyone. We programmed it for specific circumstances, not all circumstances as part of the new player feature at the time. Thanks very much for your thoughts and continued interest. We will take a note of it.