Multi Style Support Idea...

[carneyweb]

Hello, and thank you for a WONDERFUL app.

I have an idea for how to increase the functionality of the app (the playback portion) exponentially (literally).

The idea is to have a way to set a style for the section of a tune rather than just the whole tune. Note, I'm not talking about per measure, but rather per section (in, A, B, C, Coda, etc.). This way, instead of having a "Latin/Swing" style, you'd specify that the A section is Latin, the B is Swing. This would allow for any mixture... for instance, I'd like a "Ballad Jazz Brushes/Swing" sort of a style, which uses brushes on the drums in the A section and sticks in the B. It's not available, and I would have to wait for it to be done as a separate style. But if I could mix and match myself, I can have any interesting style mixture... maybe Brushes on the intro, Latin on A, Swing on B, and a Rock style on C, with Swing on the Coda.

A "Song Style" would provide defaults for each sub section, so that "Jazz Medium Up" could still apply to an entire song with no further style specification needed.

The UI for this would be fairly straight forward (I think) as part of the Editor, just a table with the section and a popup with the styles.

Of course, the tricky part is the playback :-)

In any case, consider this a feature request that I know will be quite a while coming, if at all. I'm just hoping that this idea gets some synapses firing in the developers :-)

Thanks again!

- Mike.

[Keith88]

Hi Mike,

I recently (2-11-13) posted in the Feature Requests thread about combination styles, in which the A section and B section of a tune had different rhythm styles in the first and last choruses, and all of the middle choruses used the B section style. This description fits the Latin/Swing and the new Swing Two/Four styles to which we already have access. Your idea is completely different and very interesting. My question to you is: do you want to change rhythm styles by section in all choruses, or only in the first and last choruses? If only on the first and last choruses, what rhythmic style do you want for the middle choruses? How would you indicate this for playback?

I'd like a couple of new combo styles, including a Ballad/Double-Time style (slow ballad for the first and last choruses, double time for the middle choruses) and a Bossa/Swing style (just like the Latin/Swing style, but with Bossa instead of Latin on the A sections of the first and last choruses).

I agree with you--this is a wonderful app.

Keith

[carneyweb]

Hi Mike,

I recently (2-11-13) posted in the Feature Requests thread about combination styles, in which the A section and B section of a tune had different rhythm styles in the first and last choruses, and all of the middle choruses used the B section style. This description fits the Latin/Swing and the new Swing Two/Four styles to which we already have access. Your idea is completely different and very interesting. My question to you is: do you want to change rhythm styles by section in all choruses, or only in the first and last choruses? If only on the first and last choruses, what rhythmic style do you want for the middle choruses? How would you indicate this for playback?

I'd like a couple of new combo styles, including a Ballad/Double-Time style (slow ballad for the first and last choruses, double time for the middle choruses) and a Bossa/Swing style (just like the Latin/Swing style, but with Bossa instead of Latin on the A sections of the first and last choruses).

I agree with you--this is a wonderful app.

Keith

Re: change rhythm styles by section in all choruses.

Well... if we wanted to be complete, you'd have some sort of grid with a precedence that describes what happens if you don't have something specific defined... For instance:

- Overall style for the tune... this wins out if nothing else is defined
- Overall style for middle choruses
- Overall IN/A/B/C/D/V/Coda styles
- IN/A/B/C/D/V styles for middle choruses

The rule for picking the style would be, for each section, start at the bottom of the list and work your way back up until you find a match... So, let's say I'm in a middle chorus in a section labeled C...

- Is "C" style defined for middle choruses? Yes... use it. No? then
- Is Overall style "C" style defined? Yes... use it. No?
- Is Middle chorus overall style set? Yes... use it. No?
- Use overall style for the tune

Something like that. Then... mix and match to your heart's content :-)

- Mike.

[MCJazzer]

Agreeing w/ all this brainstorming - I was a little disappointed to find out that w/ the Jazz-Latin/Swing style that the change from Latin to Swing only occurs on the 1st & Final times, for all the repeats in between, it defaults to a standard swing feel. I was hoping that the Latin to Swing change would happen on every repeat.

But you know, these are all just wishes - what is it they say, when you give somebody a taste of something great, all they want is more?! We must all be driving the iRealb developers crazy w/ all our feature requests! We should all prob. remember that that "other" app that many are referencing (something about an ensemble in a container) costs way more, has been around for at least 25 years (I think) & has the backing of a substantial corporation, w/ marketing access (their software is sold as part of packages by other companies, or incl. w/ textbooks, etc.) prob. not available to the owners of iRealb. From what I've seen on their website, iRealb looks like it has less than a dozen employees, not all of whom are developers. So maybe we shoud all back off on our constant feature requests (unless some of us are willing to be investors in iRealb or something). It's an amazing app, esp. for the price - THANK YOU to the developers!!!!!!!!

[massimobio]

MCJazzer thanks for understanding.
In fact we are two developers and two people doing part time technical support
Yes, we are very small. We work very hard trying to add features as fast as we can on all three platforms (iOS, Mac and Android).
I try to focus our development resources toward the features that the most people are going to enjoy.

Re: Styles that switch between sub styles between A and B sections.
I chose to not switch at every chorus because frankly it drives me crazy when bands do that.
The groove never settles and it starts becoming predictable instead of a happy variation.
If you listen to some of the masters of this kind of playing like Oscar Peterson they most probably stay in one style for the solos.
That being said, I understand that it's a taste thing and there is one workaround you can use to make the app keep switching at every chorus.
Make sure that there are no repeated sections (you might need to write out repeated sections) then put a big repeat from the first measure to the last one.
Now you can add a text indication at the end of the chart, of how many times you want the song to be repeated for example x4 and then set the player to one chorus.
Since the player believes you are now in the first (or last) chorus it will keep switching styles for all 4 repeats.

Here's an example:
After You've Gone - Henry Creamer



Massimo.

[DaleMac]

I try to focus our development resources toward the features that the most people are going to enjoy.

Thank you. Every time I see a new user suggesting a particular feature they had on another sequencer or program, I wonder why they bothered switching to iRealb in the first place. And then I think "Yeah, just what I need, more tiny buttons on my iPod to accidentally press." The appeal of iRealb is its simplicity and affordability - both of which would be lost if every kewl function from Band in a Box, Pro Tools, Garage Band, whatever were crammed in. Personally, if I use iRealb on a live gig, I keep the volume as low as possible - the less attention it draws to itself, the better. If I wanted a karaoke machine, I'd buy one.

[MCJazzer]

Thanks for the workaround, that did the job! And yes, I agree, most performance practice for those kind of songs stays in one rhythmic style for the solos. I just wanted the ability to keep the styles changing through the solos for one song I'm working on.

Thanks

[Keith88]

I agree with massimobio--I don't want the rhythmic feel to change within a chorus when I solo as the groove never does settle down if it changes. And, I agree with DaleMac that "appeal of iRealb is its simplicity and affordability." I don't need all of the features of BIAB; that's why I don't use it. However, I would like the two combo styles I described in my 2/27/2013 post rather than anything more complicated.

I'm an older guy who plays in a community college jazz ensemble. Virtually all of the kids have iReal b on their smart phones or tablets. The developers have made a significant contribution to jazz education in the creation of this practice and performance tool. They have also given lots of pleasure to an old piano player like me who now has a bass player and drummer living in my iPad and available anytime I want to front a piano trio.

[DaleMac]

It's interesting to go back through older posts and read how iRealb has evolved - especially when everything hit the fan after players "discovered" they could use it on live performances. iRealb is (and I hope will continue to be) first and foremost an educational tool. And while I would never discourage anyone from posting feature requests (I've posted a few myself), some of them seem impractical and are evoked simply because there's a "Play" button. I confess I'm old school and still a bit uncomfortable when tracks replace flesh'n'blood musicians. So I'm probably not as anxious as others for iRealb to play perfectly on every song in every style.

I'm guessing the developers look to the most popular standards to dictate which new style or feature has priority. (For instance On Green Dolphin Street or Star Eyes for the Latin/Swing setting - it's fairly universal to play Latin on the head, swing the bridge, and swing all the solos.) So a new style will do the most good for the most people on most songs. It's also fairly common to double-time solos on a ballad (although I don't particularly care for that custom myself). Anything more complex than that might be desirable on a handful of tunes (Linus and Lucy comes to mind) but otherwise would go unused, therefore the developers' energies would be better focused elsewhere.